3 Responses to A View From Over the Pond

1. mickc says:

   February 6, 2022 at 12:32 pm

   It’s not a club of one though.
   It was, allegedly, Cameron who would not allow the Civil Service to prepare for the consequences of a Leave result. It was his Government which said Leave meant leaving the Single Market, when he need not have done so.
   But blame must also attach to the Remainers who tried to overturn the result of a democratic referendum, including Starmer who effectively torpedoed Corbyn’s chances of winning a General Election by insisting on the Second Referendum approach. They should have accepted the result and then worked to make it viable.
   So, the club of useless PMs will just grow and grow

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   • bernardporter2013 says:

     February 6, 2022 at 2:55 pm

     I agree that the blame should be spread around; and also that a better response to a very marginal and dodgy ‘referendum’ result would have been a compromise ‘Brexit’, keeping the ‘Common Market’ aspect of it. That, as I understand it, was Corbyn’s policy. But I don’t agree that the Referendum result should have been accepted in its entirety, when (a) the tradition internationally is that on existential questions they need to be retested to make sure of them (hence the ‘second referendum’); (b) the clear cheating and corruption that led to that result; (c) the fact that it was never made clear what people were supposed to be voting FOR; (d) the fact that it was supposed to be ‘advisory’ in any case: if not, the courts ruled, it would have had to be re-run; and (e) that people’s view were likely to change afterwards. You can’t expect people to ‘get over’ ‘losing’ in this way. Most of that, of course, goes back to Cameron.

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     • mickc says:

       February 6, 2022 at 5:12 pm

       There was never any problem for ” the British people” ( what on Earth does this actually mean…discuss..🤔) with a Common Market (although I am unsure as to how “Common” it really was…Germany certainly did rather better..it was slanted towards manufacturing, not sevices..)

       And yes, I believe that was Corbyn’s original policy… badly disseminated but what else could be expected from the UK MSM? He really is rather naive for a long term politician. Perhaps that is the result of having been trashed for so many years.

       I accepted, not believed, I didn’t give him much thought, what the MSM said until he became Labour leader..at which point one researches his true opinions. And I liked the Labour party being led by a real Socialist, not a Blairite. After all, that’s what they are about. And no…he is not anti-Semitic, he opposes Israel’s Palestine policies…not the same at all.

       I entirely disagree with your view on the Referendum result. For better or worse, the result of a democratic vote must be accepted…within the bounds of an agreed Bill of Rights. The Referendum did not impinge on any Rights which any modern society accepts as valid.
       The alternative is that no democratic vote has validity..in which case there can be no lasting democracy (which may well be the case but the UK has survived nonetheless and is acceptable to a large majority of its inhabitants).

       I really don’t believe that the voters were taken in by any of the nonsense on either side…the “British” are far too cynical.

       And no, it was not advisory. Every Party stated they would abide by the result…and then tried not to. So why give them themselves any legitimacy?

       However I think that Merkel’s “nein” to Cameron’s request for help on “immigration” probably swung it for Leave. Being told no by the leader ( a Prussian…) of the nation which, within living memory, pioneered murder of a racial group on an industrial scale most certainly did not help. It is strange how events cast such a Long Shadow..yes, apologies for nicking the epithet…but they do.

       One can only hope that common sense will prevail, on both sides, ( the EU’s attitude did not help…if it is not capable of surviving with equanimity one member leaving it should not survive at all…) but it seems to be in short supply.

       Of more rather more import is, of course, the USA’s current NeoCon policy against Russia and which the UK is poodling along with..but the EU isn’t! One has to live with the neighbours..regrettably the USA has none of consequence.

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